{"id":4238,"date":"2018-11-09T23:53:00","date_gmt":"2018-11-09T22:53:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/2018\/11\/09\/skryty-zivot-stromu-rozhovor-s-peterem-wohllebenem\/"},"modified":"2021-01-25T21:28:01","modified_gmt":"2021-01-25T20:28:01","slug":"skryty-zivot-stromu-rozhovor-s-peterem-wohllebenem","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/skryty-zivot-stromu-rozhovor-s-peterem-wohllebenem\/","title":{"rendered":"The hidden life of trees: an interview with Peter Wohlleben"},"content":{"rendered":"

The German Peter Wohlleben (1964) is a type of enlightened forester who brought a new perspective on forests and trees and the meaning of forestry work. He sees the forest as a complex social organism in which individual trees communicate and cooperate with each other and together strive for the survival of the forest as a whole, which creates a cool and humid climate in which trees feel comfortable and can therefore live for a long time. Since 2007, Peter Wohlleben has also been spreading his views on forest ecology and management through his publications. His book in particular has been groundbreaking.\u00a0The Secret Life of Trees<\/em> (The Secret Life of Trees<\/em>, Kazda Publishing House 2017), which received significant international acclaim. It was followed by other publications, almost all of which were also published in Czech. In 2006, Peter Wohlleben became the manager of a forest district near the village of H\u00fcmmel near the German-Belgian border. He practices environmentally friendly forest management here \u2013 based on the principle of FSC ecological certification, without the use of heavy machinery and pesticides \u2013 and is gradually restoring it to its original natural state; it also includes a forest cemetery. see.\u00a0www.gemeinde-huemmel.de<\/a>It also offers lectures, seminars and trips; see:\u00a0www.peter-wohlleben.de<\/a>The findings of Peter Wohlleben and Canadian biologist Suzanne Simmard about the forest are captured in the documentary film Intelligent Trees \u2013 see\u00a0www.intelligent\u2013trees.com<\/a>In this interview with Steve Curwood, a radio weekly on Public Radio International's Living on Earth (The Hidden Life of Trees, August 7, 2016), Peter Wohlleben talks not only about the invisible connections between trees, but also about how we should take better care of them. Translated and edited by Ji\u0159\u00ed Zem\u00e1nek. Published in the magazine\u00a0Seventh generation<\/em>\u00a05\/2018.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Pohled
View into the interior of the forest near the village of H\u00fcmmel, managed by Peter Wohlleben<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD: <\/strong>According to Greek mythology, the trees in a certain grove could talk, having the gift of prophecy. There are many other stories about "talking trees", from the Disney film Pocahontas<\/em>until after Lord of the Rings<\/em>. German forester Peter Wohlleben also says today that trees can at least talk to each other. According to him, forests are social networks in which individual trees not only communicate with each other and warn each other of impending dangers, but also take care of their sick and old members, and if they cannot communicate with each other, they live shorter lives. Petr, welcome to Living on Earth<\/em>and my first question for you is: Where in Germany is your forest located?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> Thank you for the invitation! My forest is located in the western part of Germany, near the Belgian border, in the Eifel mountains. We have beautiful forests here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> Peter, your book The Secret Life of Trees<\/em> You start with the chapter "Friendship," in which you describe how you stumbled upon a remarkable collection of mossy green, as you called it, stones? How did these stones actually come into being?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> They turned out to be a hundred-year-old stump. The tree had been cut down four or five hundred years ago, and when I stumbled upon it and began to examine it, I found that it was still alive, without any green leaves. This seemed impossible, because a tree is a living being that burns sugars in its cells just like we do, and after four hundred years every molecule of sugar should be dead. The only explanation was that this old stump was being nourished by its neighbors.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> Nourished by their neighbors? Why do some trees feed the neighboring stump?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> Yes, it sounds incredible, because in school we all learned that in the process of evolution, all beings fight each other, so that only the strongest survive. But in the forest we have a social society that fights with each other for the survival of the whole forest. Each tree tries to keep its neighbors, because together they create a special climate, which is cool and humid, and in which the trees feel comfortable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> By the way, what kind of tree was that stump?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> The stump in question was an old beech. Beeches were once a widespread tree throughout Germany and throughout Central Europe, the eastern United States, and even parts of Canada. Today, most of these areas have been transformed into plantations of spruce, fir, and the like.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Peter
Peter Wohlleben with his "green stone".<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> So if this stump was some four hundred years old, how old were the trees that cared for it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> We don't know because these trees were not planted, so we can only guess how old they are. I think they are around two hundred years old. We don't have any really old trees in Germany because every tree that reaches a certain age is cut down. The timber industry is a very sad chapter and without very old trees we are not able to find out what is happening in the forest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD<\/strong>: In your book you conclude that there must be some kind of relationship between this stump and the trees that feed it. Is it a family perhaps?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> Yes, it is indeed possible. For example, biologist Susan Simmard of the University of British Columbia has found that mother trees can recognize their own children from other young trees and also have favorite children that they feed more than their other children. It sounds incredible and perhaps not very nice, but it is something that trees do too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> Do you think it is likely that the surrounding trees could be daughters or sons of these mother trees and that they care for their parents?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> This is indeed possible because trees have brain-like structures in their root tips. The University of Bonn has discovered that processes similar to those that occur in the brain take place here. So trees can navigate and find out about themselves: this is a neighbor, this is a different species, these are my own roots or this is my beloved child or grandfather or whoever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"200
A 200-year-old mother tree and a 150-year-old child tree that the mother tree is caring for. (photo: P. Wohlleben)<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> Okay, wait. You're talking about brains in trees. How could a tree have a brain?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> Yes, that's really something special, because it's not a brain like ours. It's a bit difficult for us to understand, because we don't really know where exactly such a tree brain might be. We know that the tips of tree roots contain structures that resemble a brain, but that doesn't mean that the brain is located there. For example, we don't know where trees store their memory. They store some memories in their branches. For example, we know that in the spring, trees can count the days with temperatures above 20 degrees Celsius, because when it gets warm in March, it doesn't mean that spring is really here. It can be a few days later, when the strong frosts of April can destroy the new leaves, so the trees have to wait until spring really comes. That's why they count the days, the warm days, and only when they've counted the right number of them do they put out new leaves. Which means that trees not only count, but also that they have a memory. For example, trees can also remember severe droughts. In 2003, we had a very severe drought in Germany during the summer, and the trees, which were not used to dry summers, suffered very badly. Their wood cracked, which caused them pain, and so after this experience, these trees changed their strategy when it came to water consumption. The trees know that they must not use too much water in the spring because they have to save some water for the next summer, which may be dry. So the trees can remember what happened in the past and then change their strategies to consume water in a new way. And that was something very surprising to us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"V\u011bdci
Scientists assume that the roots of trees contain a large part of the knowledge they have accumulated.<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> So you say that trees are capable of learning. What do you mean by that specifically?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> Yes, trees are also able to learn from other trees, which is the case with the severe drought just mentioned. Drought primarily affects trees that are standing on parched land. These trees are the first to suffer from drought, and when they recognize that water is running out, they provide information about this to other trees through their roots and wider family network, teaching them that something is happening that is associated with drought or an insect attack. Thanks to this, these trees can then prepare for the drought and reduce their water consumption or, in the case of an insect attack, they can introduce poison into their bark. They store this memory and can then react much more quickly in the next similar situation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> How do trees communicate and how fast does this communication occur?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> Trees are very slow. For example, electrical signals in their tissues take one or two seconds to travel an inch. So trees are able to respond within minutes or hours or even days. Because these electrical signals take up to several minutes to travel from the top of the tree down to its roots, trees have devised yet another way to communicate, using chemical signals that they emit from their leaves, which the trees around them can smell and therefore begin to perceive: "Oh, that's a strange bug attacking the neighboring tree." And they can prepare for this situation much faster than if they were informed through the roots.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> Electrical impulses therefore spread very slowly through trees: trees transmit information in the manner of nerves and can warn each other of danger in this way. Why do you think it is useful for forest managers to understand trees as social beings?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> Because healthier forests will also produce more wood. However, I believe the most important thing is that foresters should be primarily tree protectors and their main goal should be to preserve a healthy forest for future generations. A forest is much more than timber. For example, this old beech forest that I am responsible for contains more than ten thousand species of animals and if you cut it down and replace it with, for example, Douglas fir and spruce, then most of these species will disappear and be replaced by others that are not common to our region.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> What is lost when an old tree is cut down? What behavioral change does this cause in the social network of trees?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"I
According to Peter Wohlleben, even selective logging damages the forest.<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING: <\/strong>Even if you do thinning and cut down just one of the trees and leave, for example, 50% trees intact, this social network is destroyed. When you do this, you change the tree from a social being into an individual. The trees suffer and do not reach their true old age. For example, a beech can grow up to four hundred years, but if you do pruning in a beech forest, the beech will die at about two hundred years. That is, approximately half of its age, which it otherwise reaches under natural conditions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD: <\/strong>How different are trees in the city from trees that grow in the forest?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> City trees are like street children without parents. They can grow as they want in the city, whereas in the original forest the old mother trees only let 3% of light down, so the small trees can only produce enough sugar to keep them from dying, but no more. So in the original forest the trees are not allowed to grow freely for the first two to three hundred years, whereas on the street they get as much light as they want from their first day. They can grow here and they can produce as much sugar as they want and therefore they grow in a very unhealthy way, that is to say very, very fast. That is what we want to see on our streets. We want to have big trees in a short time because they look so nice, but they cannot really age and therefore die much sooner. There is another problem. If you leave the street lights on all night, the trees cannot sleep and will die sooner than trees that are not disturbed by light at night.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> Here in Boston, where our studio is located, there aren't many really old trees up or down the streets, even though these streets are very old. What's happening to these trees that keeps them from getting old? After all, trees are protected in the city. None of them are likely to be cut down without some public outcry or something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Zkracov\u00e1n\u00ed
Trimming tree roots shortens the life of the trees.<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> Yes, but these city trees have no social network, they are all "singles". They all live on their own like Robinson Crusoe on a deserted island. For example, we think that we have a row of trees in the streets that should be connected, but in fact the distances between them are too great. Their roots are also damaged. Their root tips have been cut off, because otherwise the roots would be too long to be planted. And with these cut, shortened roots, the trees are no longer able to connect with each other.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> When did you realize that individual trees can communicate with each other, care for their sick and warn each other of impending danger?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> I think I knew about trees at first about as much as a butcher knows about animal feelings. But after we saved the old beech forest, we turned some of its trees into a natural cemetery. Here, instead of a tombstone, people can buy an old beech tree and be buried under the tree in the form of an urn. Together with these people, I learned a new way to look at trees. As a forester, you see all trees as planks or as paper or as anything else that can be made from them. Then, as I started to look more and more, I discovered other things that make it a bit difficult for me to cut down any tree today, even the one I have to cut down.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> I can imagine. How do people react to your research?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING: <\/strong>Most people respond in a friendly way because I write about things they themselves have always thought might be true. But the really bad criticism I get is from foresters, and I think it's because I'm disrupting their work, their profits. Because when people realize that trees have feelings, they can't treat them the way we do today with cheap and unfair working methods. For example, logging with big, heavy harvesters that compress the soil and destroy its storage capacity, so that it can't store any water for the winter. So it's true that most of the bad criticism I get comes from fellow foresters, and the praise, let's say, comes from normal people who have always thought that trees have to be more than just planks.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Ekologicky
Peter Wohlleben's ecologically managed forest near H\u00fcmmel<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> How well do you think we manage the forests on our planet today?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING: <\/strong>I think we are treating them very badly at the moment. For example, clear-cutting is destroying not only these natural social systems, but also the timber factories themselves. When you completely cut down the forest, you have nothing to produce wood from. In the small village of H\u00fcmmel, where I live, we have changed the forestry methods and because of that we have also created more jobs and made a lot more money, and the forest is healthier. So we have our own ways of using trees for wood without disturbing the forest too much. And trees that can grow old also store more carbon, that is clear. But what I see around me at the moment is just the pursuit of quick profit. There is currently no thought about the future, no consideration for future generations.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CURWOOD:<\/strong> Thank you very much for the interview.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

WELL-BEING:<\/strong> Thank you very much too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"Peter
Peter Wohlleben lectures to students in the H\u00fcmmel forest.<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The German Peter Wohlleben (1964) is a type of enlightened forester who brought a new perspective on forests and trees and the meaning of forestry work. He sees the forest as a complex social organism in which individual trees communicate and cooperate with each other and together strive for the survival of the forest as a whole, which creates a cool and humid climate in which trees feel comfortable and can therefore live for a long time. Since\u2026 Continue reading The hidden life of trees: an interview with Peter Wohlleben<\/span><\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":4532,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[4],"tags":[47,46],"class_list":["post-4238","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-texty","tag-lesy","tag-peter-wohlleben","entry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4238","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4238"}],"version-history":[{"count":15,"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4238\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":7154,"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4238\/revisions\/7154"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4532"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4238"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4238"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/potulnauniverzita.cz\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4238"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}